Monday, August 25, 2008

Thinking 100% Vegan? Think Again...


Strict vegan and raw-food-only diets have gained popularity in recent years for both health-based and ethical reasons.  While there are many health benefits that can be achieved from switching to a vegan or raw food diet for a period of time, there is a strong likelihood that people who remain on a strictly vegan or raw food diet for more than a period of two years can potentially suffer some serious health consequences.
 
There are a number of nutrients that people on a 100% vegan diet can become deficient in over the long term including vitamin B12, omega-3 fatty acids (DHA and EPA), vitamin A, cholesterol and saturated fats, zinc, iron, and calcium.
 
Animal foods contain the most reliable dietary sources of vitamin B12.  While similar compounds, known as vitamin B12 analogues are found in algae, including small amounts of animal foods rich in vitamin B12 in your diet will help ensure optimal levels are delivered to your body.
 
While your body can convert an omega-3 fatty acid called ALA, which is found in many plant foods to DHA and EPA, the conversion is not efficient in some people.  The only plant food containing actual DHA and EPA is seaweed.
 
A variety of plant foods contain carotenoids, an antioxidant which can convert to vitamin A in the blood.  Evidence suggests that carotenoids are not always absorbed or converted efficiently, which can lead to a vitamin A deficiency if no foods containing actual vitamin A are ever consumed.
 
Your body needs undamaged cholesterol and saturated fats for a number of important functions.  A strict vegan diet is typically low in both of these; though there are trace amounts of both in plant foods.  If your intake of saturated fat is TOO low, there is a good risk of developing endocrine dysfunction from low blood cholesterol as well as an underproduction of reproductive and stress-related hormones.
 
Many strict vegans regularly eat whole grains that haven’t been soaked, sprouted, or fermented.  These processes release phytic acid, but whole grains that haven’t been soaked, sprouted, or fermented retain high levels of it, which binds to minerals like zinc, iron, and calcium in the intestine and prevents their absorption.
 
If you have chosen a strict vegan diet for a number of years and have developed chronic health problems like low energy, joint pain, low body temperature, skin breakouts, weak teeth, gums, and nails, brittle hair, low libido, and/or emotional instability, consider adding small amounts of clean and minimally processed animal foods like free-range eggs, deep sea salmon, organic, raw milk cheese or yogurt from antibiotic and hormone free, pasture fed cows.  If you are experiencing strong cravings for animal foods, eating small amounts of any of these products, until that feeling goes away, will help ensure your body is getting the nutrients it needs to remain optimally healthy.

181 comments:

Christopher said...

Tony,

I'm sorry man, but I'm a meat and potatos kind of guy. I come from the midwest and just like in my earlier postings, mom fed us well and dad fed us junk (they're divorced, wonder why ;-) ).

Mom did give us chicken, turkey, hamburgers, pasta, and yes, even steak. I would say that we had meat probably 3 or 4 times a week. The other days were maybe pasta, or some kookie thing my mom was experimenting with. Of course, being spoiled kids we hated it.

I've never been a believer of the vegan diets. I dated a girl in college who had a roommate that dated a vegan. The dude cooked dinner for us wanting to convert me and my girlfriend as to how good and healthy a vegan diet could be (dude was really scrawny though with some happenin hair). So he made organic spaghetti and some salad with organic dressing. Here I'm thinking, this won't be so bad and took a huge bite. My girlfriend at the time had to keep herself from laughing cause she said I turned 8 shades of green. I must have dumped 10 days worth of salt on it and made it worse. Being the good girlfriend she was, she made up some reason for us to leave and we bolted to eat out.

All I have to say man is that I'm eating alot healthier nowadays, even with meat in my diet. I eat salmon that I cook, chicken, turkey burgers, shrimp. Not every day mind you, but probably twice a week, I have some sort of meat and like my mommy did for me, make different things.

Thanks for the clearing up on the Vegan diet, I definitely feel vindicated from all the arguments in the past on the benefits of animal based foods.

Christopher Ortega (menelaus)
chris@chrisortega.com

P.S. ShoutOut to my Italian brotha: NICK, GET DOWN HERE TO FLORIDA TO DO A P90X WORKOUT ON THE BEACH BROTHA..........and you're invited too Tony. heh.

PhoenixRising said...

Thanks for the info Tony. One of the woman who live in my home is attempting to be vegan. I will probably print this out and leave it for her.

Have a good day - Pam

Jimmy Hays Nelson said...

Tony-
Jimmy aka ActorBlu here- I have been on a Vegan Diet for over 2 years now. Initially as a P90X disciple I was scared of losing muscle strength- size etc. After 2 years- I can say that I have never been stronger- or had more energy than I do now.
I find that many people that follow a Vegan diet- fall into a trap of only eating the same small amounts of food- as opposed to having a vast varied palate.
I do use a B-12 supplement- and I get my Omega fatty acids from superfood such as Chia Seeds. Other forms of fats come from Coconut Oil, avocados, nuts, seeds etc.
I feel like my diet full of- Oats, Brown Rice, Sprouted Grain Breads, Beans, Raw Fruits and Vegetables, Soy Burgers, Rice Burgers- etc gives me more nutrients than most of my meat eating friends.
As a native Texan- who worked in a Steak House for 2+ years- I really thought I would miss eating meat-- but after reading about what all goes into the meat most Americans are eating- I figured it was easier to go Vegan than to always be concerned with what hormones- feed etc were going into my meat.
The Dairy part was easy to give up-- and I know you are not a big fan of Dairy either .
I will occasionally have Whey Protein Powder (which I know is not Vegan)- but I do find that the Brown Rice protein powder I use is MUCH easier to digest than the Whey Protein that tends to give me rather rank gas.
I would love to discuss this further with you--if you have the time-- shoot me an email at:
jimmyhaysnelson@mac.com

Thanks as always for your insight and info-
Jimmy Nelson aka ActorBlu

M said...

Tony, how can you explain someone like Brendan Brazier then? The vegan triathlete (who's been vegan for years). Is he just a "freak of nature"?

Melody (vegetarian, but not vegan, for 20+ years)

M said...

Tony, how can you explain someone like Brendan Brazier then? The vegan triathlete (who's been vegan for years). Is he just a "freak of nature"?

Melody (vegetarian, but not vegan, for 20+ years)

Matthew McNelley said...

Tony-

Rock on my Brother from another mother. I found a "Tony Horton" on Facebook. Is this really you?

http://www.new.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1427567154

Thanks,

Matt

nick from ny said...

Yeah Tony,

Right on! with this one. At the end of the day, it's all about nutrient absorption and how to maximize it. Most nutritionists out there will tell you that the best way to get your daily nutritional intake is through food, not pills or supplements. It's the same thing when hydrating--drinking a bottle of water beats an IV bottle any day of the week.

I know you're a huge fan of legumes and their various combinations, but as you so properly state, it's better to consume clean and unprocessed animal proteins from sources such as deep-sea salmon and other fish, free-range eggs, antibiotic-free poultry ( I know you don't touch that!), and organic and hormone-free cheese and yogurt. Heck, I found organic, free-range buffalo burgers, and they taste great with about a quarter of the fat of regular burgers. Wild game is also packed with protein and low in saturated fat. You just have to make sure you don't get any buckshot between your teeth-;))

Seriously though, that needed B-12, essential amino acids, DHA and EPA, and fats are better and safer absorbed through the consumption of lean animal, in combo with plant, proteins. Who really eats seaweed anyway? Well, maybe if you live in SoHo or Beverly Hills-;)

In my humble opinion I believe the lacto-ovo-pesco-vegetarian thing is the way to go, at least for me. As in yoga as well as life, your inner peace centers on balance and breath. So, getting the balance right with food is just as important. Stability, people!

Don't stop until you get to the 'top of the hill', brutha!

Nick

Anonymous said...

Many of the symptoms described here could also be a result on an autoimmune disease like a thyroid disorder or celiac (gluten intolerance). Don't be so quick to judge a diet free of animal products, there may be other reasons for peoples health problems.

Chris said...

I've been doing a mostly raw vegan diet for almost 5 years. "There are a number of nutrients that people on a 100% vegan diet can become deficient in over the long term including vitamin B12, omega-3 fatty acids (DHA and EPA), vitamin A, cholesterol and saturated fats, zinc, iron, and calcium."

I suffered both omega-3 and vitamin D deficiencies which were quickly corrected with supplements (I don't get enough sunshine on my job, so vitamin D pills it is). I've never suffered B12 deficiency because I've always taken 1000mg every day. Blood tests have confirmed that I am not deficient in any other primary nutrient such as zinc, iron or calcium; in the last year I've also taken a multivitamin but even before this the blood tests were coming up good. I took the multi mainly as a precaution and to make it easier to get some of the nutrients that are harder (but not impossible) to get in plant form. My current multi, Nature's Way Alive! is entirely plant-based and loaded with all kinds of good junk :)

As of right now, there are NO essential vitamins or minerals that I am not getting through my diet.

And I almost never crave animal products. If I do crave them it is not a strong craving and it passes away quickly.

But to be totally honest with everyone, for the last 9 months I've suffered chronic fatigue. I am going to a doctor soon. I want to try two things: A very strict raw diet with plenty of water and exercise, and also I want to try a few months of adding animal products back in.

But I don't think either will help. The symptoms and my blood results all match subclinical hypothyroidism with incredible accuracy; I have no symptoms that are not found to be a result of subclinical hypothyroidism, and my TSH/T4 levels match that precisely.

If that's my problem, from what I've been reading diet has little to do with it as either a cause or a cure. It is more likely to do with genetics and fluoride in the water than diet, with the possible exception of over-consumption of "goiterific" foods like broccoli, which I do not do.

So while I'm ready to try an omnivore diet again, I honestly don't think it'll cure the fatigue.

I do know several people who have not only cured diseases but have continued for many years on the diet. I have no reason to believe they're cheating behind the scenes and I am definitely not cheating behind the scenes.

I've been doing this for almost 5 years because I want to prove the trustworthiness of the Bible; I am convinced God created mankind to eat this way (Genesis 1:29) and with the exception of the fatigue, I have been very healthy.

So, we shall see whether you are correct. If thyroid therapy does not help me, I will attempt an omnivore diet again. Don't want to rule anything out, but I don't think it will work, because as I said, "As of right now, there are NO essential vitamins or minerals that I am not getting through my diet." We shall see.

Chris said...

Oh and I forgot to mention, early symptoms of subclinical hypothyroidism (for example, cold intolerance, weight gain, low libido) began many years before my vegan diet, back when junk food was normal for me. I really do not believe it is linked to diet! But I'm willing to try an omni diet, just in case.

Chris said...

Someone mentioned celiac/gluten intolerance. Very common in many people and should always be considered, but not my problem. I haven't had anything with gluten for months; my wife is gluten-free and a raw diet lends itself to gluten-free. Could be another autoimmune disease, I'm sure the doctor will test that.

Traci Morrow said...

Tony: :)
Way to stir the pot and get people talking!

I love how you dont shy away from floating something out there that causes people to think and read some more. With the data and information that is continually being updated, its always good to do a check to see if what we're doing is still what we want to do.

One way or the other. :)

Lovin it!
TRACI

Christiona said...

God did give us plants to eat - but he also gave us meat. In the New Testament God also appeared in a vision and said that no meat was unclean. Basing your diet on one verse from the Bible is a bit dangerous.

Genesis 9:3
3"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

"Jesus was not a vegetarian. The Bible records Jesus eating fish (Luke 24:42-43) and lamb (Luke 22:8-15). Jesus miraculously fed the crowds fish and bread, a strange thing for Him to do if He was a vegetarian (Matthew 14:17-21). In a vision to the Apostle Peter, Jesus declared all foods to be clean, including animals (Acts 10:10-15). After the Flood in Noah's time, God gave humanity permission to eat meat (Genesis 9:2-3). God has never taken this permission back."
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Christian-vegetarian.html

Anonymous said...

I think the main thing is that you have to be a s mart vegetarian, I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't eat a lot of meat. I get a lot of iron from nuts (walnuts mostly, which are high in omega 3), seeds (mostly sunflower, which are high in Vitamin E), and spinach, I also eat a lot pento beans. I drink milk and eat yogurt. I eat a lot of free range organic eggs.

You can be a vegetarian be healthy, it's mostly a matter of being a smart well disciplined vegetarian that makes sure to get all those nutrients throughout the day.

Anonymous said...

Hey Christiona,

If you read further on in Acts 10:28 the vision Peter had was God showing him that He [Peter] shouldn't call any man unholy or unclean.

"And he said to them, 'you yourselves, know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and YET God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.'" And It goes on to say in 10:34 "I most certainly understand NOW that God is not one to show partiality..."
I personally believe in the original diet of veg/fruits and grains but that doesn't always work out for me hehe. I eat meat, but I see no problem with the vegeterian/vegan diet. It's all about moderation and lean meats IMO.

Take care all.

Anonymous said...

Tony,

First of all, I want to thank you for the P90X program. It has really changed my life for the better. I finished the first 90 day round and have just started the second with great results.

I've been eating a healthy vegan diet for 15 years and my recent blood work was stellar. Stellar enough to earn me a super-preferred rate by my life insurance company.

I do believe you can have a healthy diet with small amounts of clean meat, lots of veggies and healthy complex carbohydrates. But tons of hard scientific evidence has shown that a good vegan diet (low fat - no processed foods) is exceptionally healthy and provides plenty of essential fats.

However, regarding some of the statements made in this post, may I respectfully suggest that you check out the following:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/aug/oils.htm

Check out #3 in the following article: Vegetarians Make Plenty of Essential Fats (DHA)

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/sep/fav5.htm

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/jun/confessions.htm
To keep this about fats, you can skip the first section and jump directly to "The Health Claims" section which discusses EFAs.

"Alpha linolenic acid (ALA) is made by plants and converted into DHA by infants and adults in sufficient amounts to supply all of our needs including those for brain function and development. After all, the African elephant with a brain volume of 3000 to 4000 cm3, compared to the human brain of 1400 cm3, has no trouble making all the essential fats its brain, and the rest of its huge body, needs from plant foods.3 You can safely assume a comparatively puny human being can do the same."

As far as raw vegan diets go, most are extremely high fat (oils and nuts) and deficient in carbohydrates due to a lack of starchy vegetables and whole grains.

Lindsay (Happy Herbivore) said...

where are your sources for this information? most of it is grossly inaccurate.

Pythagorean said...

Tony, I've been vegan 15 years now. No energy loss, no cramps... none of the other deficiencies you mentioned. In 2007 I finished an ironman triathlon, after 12 years of being vegan, and I'm still running strong.

Just my data point... I certainly don't need chicken eggs or cow milk to thrive.

Kathryn said...

This is just all wrong. ALL wrong. Rip Esselstyn, Brendan Brazier, Mac Danzig...hello?!?!

Tons of vegan athletes:
http://www.veganathlete.com/vegan_vegetarian_athletes.php

Where are the sources for this information? I love your work out DVD's but this is just wrong.

Liz said...

The body needs FATS to MAKE cholesterol. If you read any physiology book, you will learn that enzymes from the liver, pancreas and the small intestine break down dietary fats into molecules small enough to be absorbed, and then these molecules are reassembled into the specific types of fats our body cells need, including cholesterol. Raw, undamaged fats retain their own exogenous enzymes that aid this break down process. This means fats from raw, whole fruits and vegetables. If you read a dietary analysis on any fruit or vegetable, you will find that there are trace amounts of fat in virtually EVERY plant, including oranges! (check out nutritiondata.com) Now, the trick is, it takes an efficient, HEALTHY body to gain adequate nutrition from these sources. How do you get an efficient digestive tract? EAT FRUITS AND VEGETABLES.

We all know that dairy is not ideal, so I won't get into that, but what I will say is that dairy is the main culprit when it comes to poor nutrient absorption in the small intestine. This is because lactose is an irritant that stimulates excess mucus production in the gut. The human body produces lactase, the enzyme that allows us to digest lactose, during infancy, but after we wean from breast milk, lactase production tapers off. Undigested lactose from cows milk and other dairy sources remains partially undigested and causes mucus buildup in the intestines, which creates a barrier that prevents nutrients from being absorbed from our foods.

Meat is an unideal food source. Our bodies are very adaptable, which is why we are able to eat meat, but in the beginning, according to anthropology, humans were tropical animals. This means our bodies are designed to thrive in the tropics. Anyone who has ever been to Hawaii knows about the abundance of tropical land. Thousands of species of fruits and vegetables can grow there. Now, if for some reason I found myself stranded in nature, with no tools, no clothes, no shelter, no fire (like our ancestors) I can't imagine that tracking down a wild boar and tearing into its thick flesh with my bare hands to eat its raw, bloody meat would seem more appealing than reaching up and plucking a ripe avocado from a tree overhead. What I'm saying here is that our bodies are clearly more designed to consume plants than animals. We have dexterous fingers that are perfectly suited for picking fruit, not sharp claws or fangs that would allow us to hunt live animals...

As far as vitamin B12, iron, calcium... In nature, we would have picked our fruit from trees unprotected by pesticides, so there may have been worms or bugs in them, but we wouldn't have cared. We would have pulled our lettuces and vegetables from the ground with bits of dirt on them and still eaten them. I can't imagine we would have been so obsessive compulsive about washing our fruits and veggies as we are now... because we would have been HUNGRY. The worms and bugs and tiny B12 producing microorganisms in soil are where we would get that vitamin. And there are more than adequate amounts of calcium, magnesium, iron, zinc, copper, selenium, etc in LEAFY GREEN VEGETABLES. Again, it is about the efficiency of our bodies here, not so much the nutrient content of our foods. Without polluting our bodies with meat, dairy, processed food, chemicals, pollution, etc., our bodies would BE efficient.

I have been a vegan for over 7 years, and I have never been healthier in my life. I went to the doctor 2 weeks ago and got a full panel blood test that came back absolutely perfect. B12 levels: perfect. Iron: perfect. No deficiencies, no health problems.

I highly recommend everyone on this page read a book called The China Study, by T. Colin Campbell, PhD. It is the longest running double blind study on health and nutrition EVER.

I have been doing P90X for 3 wks, and I love it! So thank you for creating this program, Tony :) I want you to know that even as a vegan, I can Bring It with the best of em! If you want to know more please email me at tisliz16@yahoo.com.

Linda said...

You know the phytic acid thing has me concerned about soy products as a substitute for meat. Yikes. Better to eat pastured chicken if you can get it and trust the source.

And with the soaking, fermenting, and sprouting, grains are a touchy topic. I'll continue to do the acidic soak for my grains, but will most likely eat fewer and rely on a litte more fruit for carbohydrates.

Glad to see it's not me thinking I'm going nuts. Is it better to risk the crap in meat or have my thyroid get messed up from phytic acid? I vote cancer!

Linda said...

@ Liz
I'd be interested in a couple of days of menus?

Linda said...

@ Liz
I'd be interested in a couple of days of menus?

Anonymous said...

It's okay Mr. Horton, I still think you're great, though I hope you have changed opinions on a long term vegan diet.

Here are more reasons why you don't need meat and what b12 is and how we obtain it and how other animals get it:

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/why-we-should-not-eat-meat/well-you-wanted-to-know.html

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/why-we-should-not-eat-meat/a-normal-source-of-vitamin-b12.html

There is more about b12 and other nutrients on the website.

Cheers! Your workouts are great! Keep up the good work and please be a light to the veg community!

David said...

Tony,

I must first express, like many before me, the utmost respect for your P90x program. It has helped me a great deal in my fitness and is one of the largest reasons I have become so passionate about health. It is wonderful to see another shining example of lifetime fitness; a sequal to Jack Lalanne's great accomplishments.

What has truly made you my most important fitness role-model is your rare ability to change, adapt and recognize new and important information. For example, you discovered how important flexibility is and incorporated yoga, and you enjoy variety and the wonderful things achievable with bodyweight excercises. In the spirit of your adaptable and open-minded views on fitness, I sincerely hope for your own longevity and health that you will visit the Website of previously mentioned Dr. John Mcdougall (drmcdougall.com) and read T. Collin Campbell's book The China Study with special attention to their implications for dairy and whey protien.

Thank you for all you have done
With respect,
David
davidthegreenpercussionist@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

Sadly, almost none of this is true. Especially the part about cholesterol. The human body makes its own cholesterol, you do not need other sources of cholesterol - in fact adding cholesterol to your diet, which only happens in the form of animal products, is one of the primary causes of death in our country.

As has been pointed out here before, a vegan diet can be and is 100% healthy, even the ADA agrees with a well planned vegan diet for all life stages.

Also, just FYI, even people who eat meat need supplements. The most recent study on Vitamin D (look it up, kids) showed that even people who get the recommended amount of sun were not getting enough Vitamin D.

If what you say is true, please provide some resources that counter those of the ADA, the PCRM, and other reputable sources.

Liz said...

@ Linda

Breakfast: 2-3 bananas + 1-2 tbsp nut butter

Lunch: LARGE salad (1 pound mixed greens, 1 tbsp olive oil, lemon juice, a pinch of sea salt, sliced tomatoes, cucumbers, raisins, peppers, broccoli, mushrooms, avocado, etc.)

Dinner: Basmati rice with boiled chickpeas, peapods & red peppers with a dash of coconut milk & curry seasoning.

Fruit for snacks

This is my typical diet. I pretty much just snack on fruit throughout the day - fresh, raw, organic fruit of all varieties. I am 5'4", 115 lbs, with 17% body fat. I am very active and I now do the P90X program as part of my regular exercise regime.

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P90x Workout Program said...

Many of the symptoms described here could also be a result on an autoimmune disease like a thyroid disorder or celiac (gluten intolerance). Don't be so quick to judge a diet free of animal products, there may be other reasons for peoples health problems.

bovine thyroid said...

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Anonymous said...

oh dear! Come on!! I've been a vegan for 10 years, and a raw foodist now with increasing proportions for the last 3 years. I'm about 95% raw foodist now!

And I'm healthier, and have more energy, better skin...and have quite frankly defied the process of aging much better than most!

AND...I don't take ANY supplements! I get every single thing that I need from my very DELICIOUS diet. =)

Plus 2 of my good friends, went through their ENTIRE pregnancies as raw foodists, and their babies are A-ok. I think it's sad if you're saying that a vegan or raw food diet is bad. Because I think if you're stupid on those diets, then yes...they can be bad for you....but if you're educated, and well versed in what your body needs to sustain itself...then, it's WAY better than consuming animal products.

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Jenna Johnson said...

Anyone concerned about a vegan diet should check out a documentary called "forks over knives". The results are profound. Everyone who is concerned about their health might want to check this out. You will not be disappointed

Anonymous said...

Totally stupid. Veganism rocks! been one, plan to stay one, will die one.

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